Color sealing over clear seal

[David Brown]

Hello. I have a customer upset that a stain could not be removed from a few of his grout lines after we had clear sealed the floors. So we are looking at having to now do a color seal to keep the customer happy. Is it possible to color seal with GP over a clear seal that was put on about a week ago. If not, what are the best steps to take to make this as painless and inexpensive as possible. Was thinking if I couldn't go over it that we could use a stripper then a turbo but not sure.

[CaryCassidy]

How many stains? Can you just go and address those areas?

You need to strip out the sealer to apply the color.

This seems like a giant leap to take for a couple stains.

I always point out the no amount of cleaning can restore to 100% brand new.
If that is what they are going for then color seal is the answer.

-Sometimes on a couple small stains I will use a small grout knoife and score the top of the stain. Gone in 60 seconds.

[David Brown]

Cary,

Yeah there is just a handful of stains. But you suggest taking a knife and scoring the grout and then should I alkaline and turbo the spots after that or is there a better way to resolve it. Thanks

[Eric J]

just scrape away at the stain. it is probably just on the surface. Be careful not to make the grout look rougher then the rest though. If the stain throughout the grout (probably isn't) then use an alk cleaner to take clear sealer out of grout then color sleal it.

How many sq ft. are we talkin here?

[Mr Coatings Guy]

Cary was referring to the little grout saws that have a short segment of a carbide saw blade attached to a handle. Easy to find in the tile department at Lowes or HD. Not just a plain knife blade.

"grout knoife" is the Icelandic name for that tool I think.

[saboyt]

David should also have mentioned that the stain is SOUTHERN RED CLAY! Anyone that has it in their state knows what that is like to remove. If it gets wet in the grout line (as when cleaning with the turbo) it can be a bear to remove. Similar to removing red dye.

Any of you carpet guys know what to use to remove red dye from carpet? Maybe that will work. Maybe Bruce will come along and give us the answer to that stuff. I know once it was in my white burber carpet when i lived in Atlanta, it didn't come out.

[topwand1]

if it is grout wouldn't bleach work?

[Mr Coatings Guy]

Originally Posted by topwand1

if it is grout wouldn't bleach work?

Chlorine bleach & peroxides help with organic stains like grape juice or red dyes, but do little to nothing on an inorganic pigment like red clay.

As to putting color over clear, it depends on the color and the clear. Clear seal can be almost anything and in some cases almost nothing (e.g. one coat of cheap retail sealer). Since it is unlikely that you used crap, I would say a quick alkaline & turbo would be the place to start.

But you know the magic word - TEST!

If you tell us how many coats of what clear product you used you may get a better prediction.

[David Brown]

We put one coat of a clear sealer from "Harvard Chemical Research, Inc." It is called Stone Impregnator #407 and is a water based stone and grout sealer. Thanks

[bestmarble]

The iron oxide in red clay (usually) can be treated with phosphoric acid.

I would also suggest that the "clear" seal which is really a penetrating sealer, could be of varying quality. Some are fluoresins, some are silanes, siloxanes etc.
Some of the cheaper ones can be affected by high alkalines, but the better fluororesins aren't affected by them.

Acids will damage all penetrating sealers.

So I would recommend to SCRUB all the grout lines with phos acid, then rinse well or turbo.
If you dont effectively knock off the penetrating sealer, your colour seal may not stick properly.

[Eric J]

Originally Posted by bestmarble

Acids will damage all penetrating sealers.

So I would recommend to SCRUB all the grout lines with phos acid, then rinse well or turbo.

Not all penetrating sealers!!!!!!!!! Have you ever gone up againts Aquamix's orginal "Grout Sealer". Used to sell it in Lowes awhile back. I have gone up against it numerous times and nothing will take it out of the grout except Aquamix Sealer and Coating Remover, Klean Strip's KS3, or Jasco's Premium Stripper. Period. Acid won't even fizz in the slightest on grout that has the AM Grout Sealer in it. Bottle even says excellent against acids.

I am not talking about their Sealers Choice Gold etc.... the cheaper stuff origianlly from lowes.

[saboyt]

You're right Eric and if you let some dry on ceramic or porcelain tile - forget about it! You have to make a mix of baking soda and scrub it with your pad to remove it from the tile surface. That stuff is brutal!

[shane deubell]

Originally Posted by saboyt

You're right Eric and if you let some dry on ceramic or porcelain tile - forget about it! You have to make a mix of baking soda and scrub it with your pad to remove it from the tile surface. That stuff is brutal!

I am so screwed, glad i read this post

We have a commercial site where the tech put way to much sealer on porcelain and dried into a haze. here i was thinking just use floor stripper and green pad, this could be a big problem for me.Been there 2 weeks before customer called

[Eric J]

yes you could be scratching your head on this one bro. Try steve's baking soda remedy. If not then it might be Sealer and Coating Remover applied to grout and a little on the tile then wait 30 mins then scrub like crazy, turbo, dry, apply a better sealer.


it is this one right?

[saboyt]

I was referring to when you are sealing grout and let some get on the tile and don't remove it immediately. We used a squeegie to seal the grout on 2" tiles and didn't get it all off the tile. Sealing and coating remover will work but it will also take it off the grout and you will have to redo your job. The baking soda will take it off the tile and not out of the grout. But be prepared to rinse many times to remove the baking soda residue.

[shane deubell]

Originally Posted by saboyt

I was referring to when you are sealing grout and let some get on the tile and don't remove it immediately. We used a squeegie to seal the grout on 2" tiles and didn't get it all off the tile. Sealing and coating remover will work but it will also take it off the grout and you will have to redo your job. The baking soda will take it off the tile and not out of the grout. But be prepared to rinse many times to remove the baking soda residue.

We actually did same thing, the problem was it was end of of a long weekend and a big job, my feeling is they squegeed and then wipe up excess when grout was still pretty wet and kind of just spread around. But i will find out on wed i said we will just redo it. My fault i will eat it and redo, should have gave better instructions i guess.

[Dafloorman]

A good solvent like POG would work on that red clay, paint, oil, or grease, hense the name POG. If David is working on a shower, sometimes you must explain to custy, that color seal, may or may not hold in a shower, because of the water issue? And most custy's wants all the grout on the walls even as far as color, nothing short of re grouting all the walls, which is not fun.

Gerald
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[Eric J]

Originally Posted by saboyt

You're right Eric and if you let some dry on ceramic or porcelain tile - forget about it! You have to make a mix of baking soda and scrub it with your pad to remove it from the tile surface. That stuff is brutal!

Yeah, try getting it out of the grout in preperation to Color Seal it. I have spent some fun times on those jobs.