MB 8 - the acid test

[fabmast]

these videos show application of MB8 to a couple of tiles. after the application i tested the stone with acid.
they are both about 6 minutes.
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i want to make the point that mb8 is not marketed nor intended to protect from low ph etching. it has been mentioned that it may help provide some level of acid resistance. as a product mb8 stands alone as a great finish. it is available from mb stone.

i have also made some changes to my wordpress blog that you may find interesting.

[Ted McFadden]

How is MB8 any different from HMK P23, or GQ 213M or A comparable lithofin product? They all leave a finish and all are designed for traffic areas in commercial buildings. I used P23 in the mid 90s and it worked great on some very large maintenance projects.

[kingjoelking]

Very interesting Fabmast. That is really cool.

And Ted. If i understand correctly the main difference between MB8 and HMk P23 or GQ 213m is that they all have different names. There may be other differences maybe you could explain them.

But Hey thanks for pointing that out. Woot!!!!

[Jake]

thanks for the video fabmast. It's alway's fun to practice different methods with stone and to see them. Just an added note. I recently restored a rojo alicante floor and used mb-8/10 after powder polish. Two weeks later custy calls, grandaughter threw up on it and there was "marks" where the throw up was. I hit the throw up spots with mb-12 followed with mb-8/10 and it was seemless. Point being not only will it sometimes prevent an etch ( like on your dark emprador in the video) but other times it can prevent from harsh damage as well even if the finish is removed it may not always need a full restoration again. I don't know about the other products mentioned but I like the MB-8/10 myself and very easy to apply.

[GeorgiaJoe]

Originally Posted by Jake

Two weeks later custy calls, grandaughter threw up on it and there was "marks" where the throw up was.

She must be quite an accomplished vomiter...

[Eric J]

Originally Posted by GeorgiaJoe

She must be quite an accomplished vomiter...

wait till she is 21!

[Jake]

that's creepy.

[fabmast]

some disturbing responses.

i wondered i fit would work. i thought when it didnt on the crema that it wouldnt at all. glad to hear it is easy to repair. Jake, did you have to use a high speed on the repair.

as far as the other products mentioned, i dont have a clue how they work. you make a good video California Ted, so have at it.

all i know is there are applications for such a product on our route. just have to find a way to sell it.

[Ted McFadden]

Agreed. I have been selling the HMK system for some time. I got a tutorial from Joe Cooper ten years ago. He is the guy that started the VIC and Granquartz Care Systems. Both use a similar coating that is removed and replaced on a 90 day rotation with a regimented daily cleaning and periodic polishing of traffic patterns.

The trouble is the maintenance system works well, but it is a lot more than the systems that other guys are selling out here. I am priced out of the market for hotel lobbies and other large surfaces. Funny thing is the lower priced systems just don't work.

The tough part of the sale is: How do you sell someone a system that will work in the future, that is more expensive on a promise that it will work better than the cheaper system. There is no maintenance demo that can be done over a time period, no empirical evidence. Does it work? yes. Does anyone care?

We need to do a case study on ten or twenty surfaces. Make it product independent (but similar systems) and have a couple of control surfaces. If this was possible.... Wait outside, is that a flying pig?

[Stone Dude]

Ted, we can use my showroom, i just dont have a burnisher.

[Ted McFadden]

We need a lot of traffic too. I was thinking about ten different places in an airport.

[Stone Dude]

what about a bank? theres a bank nearby that may be cooperative, vein cut Roman Travertine.

[jhartman]

Cameron,
I have a 1500 rpm burnisher that I rarely use that would work for you.

[Jake]

fabmast - for the repair I just brought inthe makita. since the largest area was just a couple tiles and then some random splatter marks.

cam - not sure about the other products mentioned but you can use mb-8/10 without a high speed burnisher. Swing machine will do.

[Ted McFadden]

A bank would be fine. I don't think you need a burnisher for any of the products. Seeing as though they are all the same.

[Stone Dude]

I tried it once with a hogs hair didnt work that well. I can try again.

Jim, youre burnisher is out of control. when you had it here, I grabbed it with one hand as Im use to a swing machine and whipped it right into the wall.

if the swing doesnt work I'll call you.

[alazo1]

if the swing doesnt work I'll call you.

Use your Cimex.

Albert

[fabmast]

i am sure for a fact you have to have a burnisher for mb8. MB had one in his class and when i have applied it to floors i have rented one. you get burnisher speed, and i guess heat from a handheld, but i dont think it will work w/ a 175 rpm swing machine.

[Eric J]

MB 8 says to burnish, but if not available, a 175 will be fine if blended in w/ MB 10.

"IT’S A REAL BREAKTHROUGH!! It is specifically designed for polished stone floors installed in High-Traffic environments, such as Hotel Lobbies, Office Buildings and Condominium Lobbies, etc. It’s an extremely tough film-forming topical finish (NOT a “crystallization” solution) that maintains the “natural look” of the stone, while providing and extremely long-lasting protection and actually increasing the original gloss of the floor! It’s remarkably anti-slip, and it’s just as easy to apply as any janitorial-grade floor finish. A high-speed floor burnishing machine (1500 – 2500 RPM), preferably (but not necessarily) equipped with a “hog-hair” pad, is preferred, though excellent results can be obtained also with a regular 175 RPM floor machine, if used in conjunction with our MB-10. If properly applied and maintained (with our To view links in this forum your post count must be 5 or greater. Your post count is 0 momentarily., and our To view links in this forum your post count must be 5 or greater. Your post count is 0 momentarily.) it will never require stripping! (See Maintenance of High-Traffic Polished Stone Floors in our To view links in this forum your post count must be 5 or greater. Your post count is 0 momentarily. section for more details)"

[Stone Dude]

Originally Posted by fabmast

i am sure for a fact you have to have a burnisher for mb8. MB had one in his class and when i have applied it to floors i have rented one. you get burnisher speed, and i guess heat from a handheld, but i dont think it will work w/ a 175 rpm swing machine.

youre sure for a fact, but you dont think it will work? so youre not sure.

[alazo1]

I remember one of the first post for mb8 posted by Reg Pinto. His machine was I think 450 rpm and came out great. I used a 20" planetary in my foyer just for kicks and worked the mb8 in just fine.

Albert

[Jake]

I only have a swing machine besides my hand helds and I use the swing machine every time for MB-8. no problems.

[fabmast]

that was like MB's expert on mb8, and he commented on this product on this board, and for the life of me i cant remember his name. i think he was from cleveland. a real nice guy that helped me a lot with how to apply the product. there was never any question you had to use a high speed. if there is a way to do it w/o a high speed this is great. i will have to test.
if anyone remembers his name i would appreciate your mentioning it here. he would be a resource to chime in on this topic.
Cameron, i am certain you need a high speed and not a 175rpm because i was told you need more heat. i think what i wrote made sense that way.

[Stone Dude]

Fabmast, I think the guys name is Matt White. If I remember correctly he was very active and for some reason I want to say he was from Cleveland. I have his # in my phone, but have not talked to him in over a year. I dont remember his username.

[srosen]

Hi Guys,
Great thread-yes MB-8 works great but yes you need a 1500 rpm burnisher. The guy you are thinking of may be joe wirtz but there are others. If I can be of any help it is my pleasure. I was working with mb stone for the past several years however laura wanted to retire so I officially purchased mb stone on june 11th 2010. We have been hard at work keeping up the continuity(not sure if thats spelled right)of the business which is busy. We could never fill MB's shoes but we are carrying on his philosophy and business model. It is our pleasure to offer our help in any way we can. While we are not the expert maurizio was we are working in the field everyday gaining much knowledge and experience.We are more than willing to share our experience and knowledge with anyone who asks. It is one of the great pleasures that MB passed on to us as we get calls from people around the globe.

[Stone Dude]

Stu, thats great to hear! I havent heard from you for a while, sounds like you've been extremely busy. If you ever need anything let me know.

[Eric J]

Originally Posted by srosen

Hi Guys,
Great thread-yes MB-8 works great but yes you need a 1500 rpm burnisher.

Then what is is this all about?

"IT’S A REAL BREAKTHROUGH!! It is specifically designed for polished stone floors installed in High-Traffic environments, such as Hotel Lobbies, Office Buildings and Condominium Lobbies, etc. It’s an extremely tough film-forming topical finish (NOT a “crystallization” solution) that maintains the “natural look” of the stone, while providing and extremely long-lasting protection and actually increasing the original gloss of the floor! It’s remarkably anti-slip, and it’s just as easy to apply as any janitorial-grade floor finish. A high-speed floor burnishing machine (1500 – 2500 RPM), preferably (but not necessarily) equipped with a “hog-hair” pad, is preferred, though excellent results can be obtained also with a regular 175 RPM floor machine, if used in conjunction with our MB-10. If properly applied and maintained (with our To view links in this forum your post count must be 5 or greater. Your post count is 0 momentarily., and our To view links in this forum your post count must be 5 or greater. Your post count is 0 momentarily.) it will never require stripping! (See Maintenance of High-Traffic Polished Stone Floors in our To view links in this forum your post count must be 5 or greater. Your post count is 0 momentarily. section for more details)"

I have seen MB 8 with a 175 blended in w/ MB 10 and it was flawless.

[Jake]

Stu, your right. I think Joe Wirtz is who they were referring to earlier. Although if you could please clarify the 175 machine's use with MB-8. I have used a 175 machine every time I have applied MB-8 because of the label witch Eric copy/pasted from the web site and from what Joe had said when I took the class with you and MB. If I'm not mistaken the burnisher is recommended but not an absolute, right? Thanks, for chiming in, it's good to see you on the DGB. I know your busy. keep up the good work.

Jake

[srosen]

Good point Eric. I have to apologize because I read that label many years ago and forgot about those damn directions. It was also the first and last time I tried to apply mb-8 with a regular swing machine. It may have worked for MB but take my word for it using The "8" with a burnisher is much more productive(generation of heat). We have noticed that it requires multiple coats from 2-4 on the first application. Then it can be maintained using a spit buff technique with a burnisher.
Yes I know we have to change the label to read correctly I can hear the screaming already.

[srosen]

Hey Jake glad to be here. It may work that way but we always use a burnisher for the maximum gloss and the fact that we use so little product. We actually build the coats on the floor by using very small amounts of product and burnish when it dries. I will try it when I get a chance. if you start using it with a burnisher you will understand the difference. You should see maurizios instructions for mb-18 which is a product he hated to use and sell. It is the original 5x from italy and when used correctly works like a charm just a bit more messy and time consuming than his favorite powder.